[英]專訪《寫給大家看的設計書》作者Robin Williams（圖靈訪談）

圖靈訪談之四十六：專訪《寫給大家看的設計書》作者Robin Williams

《寫給大家看的設計書》在全世界範圍內銷售70萬冊，被翻譯成十幾種語言，在日本Amazon年度「藝術設計類」排名第一……這本書的作者Robin Williams在豆瓣上的評價中被描述成苦大仇深、J. K. 羅琳似的艱苦奮鬥代表。我找到了這位作者為自己寫的小傳（小傳譯文）。故事還是那個故事，但是感受全然不同。她窮，但不苦，她選擇了誠實地為自己而活，生活也慷慨地給予她豐厚的回報。

Your book is easy to understand and easy to follow, how do you manage to do that? Are you imagining yourself teaching in the classroom while you are writing this book?

Actually, I write for myself, so I can understand it! Many of the books I chose to write were because I wanted to learn that subject. So I figure that if I write in such a way that I can understand it myself, it will help others understand it as well.

I also have learned so much from my students about how people need to have information explained. For instance, when we all first starting learning to use the Macintosh in the 1980s, there was a standard way to tell someone how, for instance, to use the Copy command in the Edit menu: “Choose Copy from the Edit menu.” Well, my students would read the first two words, “Choose Copy” and they would raise their hands: “Robin, I can’t find Copy!” So I learned that I needed to write the directions in the same order in which they see the information: “From the Edit menu” . . . they find the Edit menu. Then, “choose Copy.”

I also learned, early on, not to use extraneous symbols when giving a task. For instance, the standard way to describe a keyboard shortcut was (and often still is) this: Command + C But my students would hold down the Command key and press the + key and the C key! So I learned to describe the shortcut as simply Command C.

Or the phrase, “click and drag,” to do something like move a window was confusing. My students would click, then they would drag. Well, the “click” does not really mean “click”! As you know, it means, “press the mouse button down and hold it down” while you drag. So I use click for a real click, but I use press when you’re supposed to press.

I was told several times that I was doing it wrong, that Apple had strict standards for how these things are to be explained. I doubted that Apple would throw me in jail, so I continued to explain these sorts of things in a way that made sense to my students. And I still do today.

As often as possible, if I’m not in the classroom, I ask several people to follow the directions in my books to make sure everything works properly before we send it to print. Long ago I learned that I have a moral obligation to be as careful as possible—users always think, if there is a problem, that it is because they are doing something wrong. The last thing they think is that the book has a mistake! That is soooo frustrating, I know, so I try to avoid that as much as I humanly can.

In my new work (much of it explained below), I do still teach in various sorts of classrooms to make sure I am presenting information clearly.

There is a chapter in your book called “Typography (and Life)”, why do you associate typography to life instead of other chapters?

Well, typography is the underlying foundation of all design. If a project has no type on it, it might be another art form, but it is not graphic design. I suppose when I first wrote that chapter (1993?), I was struck by the idea that contrast vs. concord vs. conflict can also describe our lives. We can choose to create conflict, which makes us miserable; we can choose to create concord, which is pleasant but can be boring; we can choose to create healthy contrast for the richest and most fulfilling discussions, adventures, stimulating ideas that push us to grow and challenge ourselves. Just like type. ;-)

Although that is the only chapter in the non-designer’s book that I obviously relate to Life, I always filter in my little philosophies in examples in every book. (Your attitude is your life, don’t let the seeds stop you from enjoying the watermelon, maximize your options, etc.)

Would you please recommend some other books about design to our readers? Is there a particular order of reading these books? Do you have some advice to the readers who has finished reading your book and are eager to learn more?

The most useful source I have ever found is John McWade’s Before & After. Subscribe to his blog, follow his web site, find his books, sign up for “The Grid” to share your projects and talk design with others and learn from everyone. There are so many design books that are inspiring and help the creative juices flow, but for practical, real, and brilliant design advice, follow John McWade and everything he has to offer. Tell him I said hi. :-) BAmagazine.com

I also enjoy the Annuals that come out every year from Communication Arts (CommArts.com/annuals). You can see the best design in the world, get inspiration, discover the trends. They have annuals for design, typography, photography, illustration, advertising, and interactive, so you can choose which area to focus on. Find projects you like in the magazines and spend a few minutes to put into words exactly what makes it work. The more you put it into words, the easier those new ideas will become part of you and show up in your own work.

Are you still writing books? Is there any subject that got your attention and you would like to write about?

Well, computer books don’t sell as well as they used to because we find information so easily online, plus there are fewer new computer users, who were a large part of my market for the OS books. At the moment we are working on putting the non-design book into video format available online. In general, however, it is necessary that I shift into another area because the world is changing!

I am actually working now on Shakespeare books. It is a field where printed books are still important (yay!). I am developing a new line of Readers’ Editions of the plays, specifically for adults reading aloud in a group. It is a very satisfying project because I am able to use my ideas of information design to help make Shakespeare easier to read aloud. The first one is finished (The Comedy of Errors Readers Edition, available on Amazon.com) and I hope to create the entire series (36 plays).

How do you distill your design concepts into several rules that easy to grasp? (It’s been an amazing job, since Chinese character and English letters pose so much difference in shape, but most of the ideas in the book are universal, equally applicable to China.) Have you been influenced by Oriental Design concepts?

After studying design for several years, I noticed that in the many lists of design guidelines, there were those four that are always present in every design. Of course, many other elements come into play when creating any project, but the four basics (contrast, repetition, alignment, and proximity) are always there. I started teaching my students these concepts and we were all astounded at 1) how easy they were to understand, and 2) what a huge difference they made. Once students were empowered with these basic tools, they could move more easily into more sophisticated projects. Once again, I learned a great deal from my students about how to teach these sorts of things.

I had a very influential instructor when I was going to college who did a lot of amazing work with us on Oriental Design concepts. But the four basics that I write about seem to be universal—as you say, they work in Chinese design as well as in English. I did not “invent” these four concepts! I merely pulled out the four most critical, based on spending huge amounts of time analyzing many sorts of design projects. What speaks to us visually seems to have a common language. :-)

If the non-design book works in Chinese, I suspect that the designer of that book is highly responsible for making it work! Kudos to her or him!

You have written several successful books for non-designers; have you considered writing some books for designers?

Actually, John and I did create the Design Workshop series. The DVD Design Workshop book and the Web Design Workshop books in that series are very out of date, but the Design Workshop book is still relevant, and one of my favorite books I’ve ever created is Handmade Design Workshop. This is a book that I co-authored with a dear friend; it is about using paint and carving tools and clay and scissors and found objects and glue and lots of handmade techniques, then incorporating those into the digital process. My co-author, Carmen Sheldon, teaches a course on handmade elements; although students at first complain because they don’t get to use their computers, by the end of the course they are amazed at how their digital design options have expanded by learning handmade techniques.

The main reason I don’t usually write for experienced designers is because there are so many books for them! It is the new designer who is perhaps feeling a little intimidated and who needs a gentler introduction. Once they master the basics, they can feel more comfortable and start exploring the wide variety of more advanced design books.

We did do a series last year called The Non-Designer’s InDesign Book, The Non-Designer’s Photoshop Book, and The Non-Designer’s Illustrator Book. Although they are in the non-design series, I know fthese books contain tips and techniques that even advanced designers could learn from! One interesting thing in this digital world of ours is that a designer must be not only creative, but must know how to use her software. If you don’t know how to control all the typographic spacing options in InDesign (letter spacing, word spacing, line spacing, paragraph spacing, etc.), you cannot produce professional-level design.

Mobile devices have been widely used more than ever. Many design concepts such as responsive design has been highlighted by the industry, have you integrated these subjects in your teaching? Do you have plans writing books about it?

Oh gosh, that is such an important and advanced field. No, I am not going to write about it—I’m going to read about it! I appear to be specializing in print these days, which is another good reason to write for beginners. The basic concepts can be applied to basic design, and then the designer can go from there to practical responsive design issues.

The Internet has empowered an era of overloaded information, people are attracted to information that is more digestible. Infographics has developed significantly recently, people find it interesting and it seems to be a good way to present data. Do you have some advice in this area?

Infographics have actually been around for hundreds of years, but you are correct in that they are taking a more prominent place these days, not only with our shortened attention spans, but with the abundance of data, as you mention. I love the challenge of infographics and sometimes wish I could have specialized in information design. It does go beyond mere design and involves different ways of thinking and organizing information. One needs an excellent sense of how to prioritize data and how to use the tools (learn to use the nitty-gritty details of your software!) to image that data. I suspect that the people who are naturally good at organizing information will find themselves drawn to information design. It’s not for everyone, but if someone has an inclination toward infographics, there are many exciting opportunities.

Responsive design is a branch of information design that, as you know, is huge right now.

Steve Krug’s books, though not specifically on infographics, provide a wonderful introduction to thinking about presenting information clearly and without extraneous stuff in the way. (I actually prefer his books over Edward Tufte’s and Richard Saul Wurman’s.)

Don’t Make Me Think, by Steve Krug

Rocket Surgery Made Easy: The Do-It-Yourself Guide to Finding and Fixing Usability Problems, by Steve Krug

(I’m not sure if the term ‘rocket surgery’ makes sense in Chinese. It is a combination of “rocket science” and “brain surgery.” We often say either, “Well, it’s not rocket science” or “It’s not brain surgery” when we want to say that a particular something is not that difficult. Steve combines the two words into a clever new expression.)

What do you think that you have gained most from the experience of teaching?

Humility. Gratefulness. Appreciation. Wonder. Pride in others’ accomplishments. Joy. Satisfaction. Clarity.

I have noticed, and you may have noticed also, that some people are teachers. It is what some of us are supposed to do. I didn’t plan to be a teacher—I wanted to be an exotic animal veterinarian in Africa or an oceanographer or a translator for the United Nations. But things show up that change the directions of our lives, a path appears and we must follow it, obstacles arise and in the process of climbing over them we end up heading in a different direction. I often wonder about the choices I have made and what my life would have been like had I made different choices. But I have learned to trust the path that I somehow created. Right now another path is being built and I am very curious to see where it will take me. ;-)

I have noticed, however, that wherever the trail leads, I am always a teacher. It is who I am. In my reading groups, in my studies, in my craft projects (bookbinding, mosaics, etc.), I always end up finding a way to share my particular knowledge with others. It is something that makes me feel like I have purpose in the world, that I am contributing to the world. It makes me feel useful.

Are you still working on the PhD of Shakespeare Authorship in London? How is it going? Why are you putting so much energy in this particular subject?

After twenty-five years of writing computer and design books, I am simply ready to expand my mind and enjoyment into other areas. My dissertation is actually not on authorship (my Masters was on authorship), but on a return to reading Shakespeare in reading groups. I have been leading Shakespeare reading groups for more than a decade. I have a small group that meets at my home every month where we read an entire play aloud in one evening, and I opened a public group, about 35 of us, who meet every Sunday and we read line by line, making sure we understand every line and discuss all the possibilities. It is very exciting!

The Shakespeare Papers that I create (www.TheShakespearePapers.com) combine my passion for design with my love of the Shakespearean works. They are 20-page full-color booklets, each one designed differently, each one focusing on one small aspect of Shakespeare. I’m taking a break from creating those until I finish my dissertation, but plan to continue them for years. I love the limitations of having to design within tight parameters and to experiment with the number of different ways to present information within the same prescribed space.

And as mentioned above, I am combining information design with my new Readers’ Editions of the Shakespeare plays. So you see, I am heading in a new direction, along that new path, but it all involves design and teaching! How does that happen? :-)

(My PhD dissertation supervisor goes to China every year for Shakespeare Authorship studies of some sort. I’m not sure exactly what he does there!)

---

更多精彩，加入圖靈訪談微信！